Comments on The Player Hater's Ball: 2005 MLB Awards and Playoff Preview Nearly every ...

Sorry, I can't figure out how to get the link. If...

2005-10-07T22:49:00.000-04:00

Sorry, I can't figure out how to get the link. If you want to read it, you'll have to go to the site and look in the September archive.

I couldn't agree with your picks more, except that...

2005-10-07T22:47:00.000-04:00

I couldn't agree with your picks more, except that I'd put A-Rod over Ortiz. It's a shame Santana won't get the Cy. He was clearly the best pithcer, but voters look at wins too much. I wrote an arguement for Santana a few weeks ago. If you want to check it out, here's the link.

http://unrestrictedview.blogspot.com/2005/09/another-cy-for-santana.html

Fair point. I'm not 100% convinced that A-Rod dese...

2005-10-05T23:07:00.000-04:00

Fair point. I'm not 100% convinced that A-Rod deserves the award by the way, but that's partly due to the fact that I still haven't quite warmed up to him yet.

But, if A-Rod wins the MVP, I guess 'that's the way the cookie tumbles'

Craig,The MVP does NOT go to the best player in th...

2005-10-05T18:52:00.000-04:00

Craig,
The MVP does NOT go to the best player in the league, it goes to the MOST VALUABLE. I will say, hands down, A. Rod would (and should) win a Player of the Year award, if one existed. But it doesn't.
A. Rod might be the best player, but Ortiz was the most valuable. And I suppose we can agree to disagree on that.
(By the way, I really wanted to respond to your last comment solely with: Wait, who's Kurt Laws?)

You're faux counter arguments are irrelevant distr...

2005-10-05T18:48:00.000-04:00

You're faux counter arguments are irrelevant distractions from my main point. It's easy to claim an argument is ridiculous by manipulating it, changing the purpose to draw a ridiculous conclusion, and then stating that it's wrong. That basically amounts to a tacit admission that the argument is correct.

You even use my logic in your Cy Young argument: a closer should't win the award unless a starting pitcher puts together an unbelievable season. You don't give a reason, but it's implicit in your reasoning that a starter does certain things that a reliever does not. I think this is correct.

In the same way, a player who plays the field does much more that a player who plays DH every day. The MVP award is supposed to go the best player in the league, not the best hitter.

The rationales are differnt, but the underlying logic is the same. I'm sure it just a coincidence that the Yankee in each situation ends up not winning the your award.

I jumped the shark?! You won't dignify my ranting...

2005-10-05T18:36:00.000-04:00

I jumped the shark?! You won't dignify my rantings because you don't have anything to say. You are so ridiculous, I wish you could see what other people see.
Maybe when you quit patronizing I will come back to visit your site, but for now good luck with the blog. PEACE

JRod, you've just jumped the shark. I won't even ...

2005-10-05T17:36:00.000-04:00

JRod, you've just jumped the shark. I won't even dignify your rantings with a response.
And ER, you'll notice I never said Howard didn't strike out, I just said Francouer needs to cut down on it.
Howard gets Rookie of the Year because he stepped in for Jim Thome, giving the Phils much-needed power down the stretch.
Francoeur flamed out in September (.287 OBP, .739 OPS too.

Just wanted to sound off on the NL Rookie of the Y...

2005-10-05T17:22:00.000-04:00

Just wanted to sound off on the NL Rookie of the Year. You state that:
Francoeur will be great if he can cut down on his strikeouts, but Howard already is the real deal.

This is patently absurd and statistically incorrrect.
Your beloved Mr. Howard had 100 strikeouts in only 312 at bats! That is horrific.
In comparison, Francoeur had just 58 strikeouts in 257 at bats.

On top of that, Francoeur actually performs with amazing skill in the field. Several run saving grabs and finishing second in the NL in outfield assists is nothing to overlook in dealing with the complete package, real deal.

Howard has a slight edge in OPS but not in OPS+ where park effect etc. is concerned.

Offensively, there is very little difference in the two players (save for Howard's unbelievably high strike out rate). Defensively, Francoeur is head-and-shoulders above Howard.

This year it is not as close as first glance.

The Rookie of the Year is from Atlanta.
His name is Jeff Francoeur.

HAHA. Your argument does not compare one bit. Riv...

2005-10-05T16:51:00.000-04:00

HAHA. Your argument does not compare one bit. Rivera is a pitcher! And closers often get the MVP in the playoffs. Nice try though. I think your Red Sox bias is really starting to take away from your judgement man, seriously. And if you want to be a dick, 14-2. Great effort!
GO back to being an Oriole fan or a National fan or whatever team you choose for the week.
You claimed to jump ship because you hated Angelous (sp?) but Red Sox fans hung on for the Duquette years and thats what a fan is supposed to do.

So I guess Mariano Rivera should give his World Se...

2005-10-05T15:58:00.000-04:00

So I guess Mariano Rivera should give his World Series MVP trophy back since all he does is sit around and wait for the Yankees to get a lead before the 9th inning.
Your arguments are growing increasingly ridiculous. Enjoy not winning the World Series again.

Craig is absolutely right and I don't care what yo...

2005-10-05T14:05:00.000-04:00

Craig is absolutely right and I don't care what you say. It does say something that your only argument against is that its BS. Everything he said is 100% dead on. According to Ortiz, he spends his time away from the plate in the clubhouse looking at video of his past at bat and preparing for his next at bat. Not only does he have no impact on the game whatsoever when in the field, but he rests and prepares that whole time. Its impossible to argue that statement. Nice work Craig.

The baseball discussion is great and I happen to a...

2005-10-04T21:32:00.000-04:00

The baseball discussion is great and I happen to agree it should be Ortiz. I will be using some of your arguements in my emails this week with my Yankee friends who give me that whole A Rod plays in the field BS.

That said, I agree there was some great stuff with Madden's commentary on MNF last night too. I think my favorite part was when Jake Delhomme made a nice play Madden says "He just looked like Brett Favre".

Also, Madden's Man Crush for Favre is getting completely out of control b/c there was no need for Madden to put Brett Favre (THE LOSING QB)on his horsetrailer with Delhomme last night.

Chase, I'm disappointed to log on and not see anyt...

2005-10-04T20:17:00.000-04:00

Chase, I'm disappointed to log on and not see anything about the MNF game last night. There was some great stuff, like Madden's insistence on every other personal foul being a "horsecollar". Also, Favre makes a terrible decision lining the offense up on the last play of the game, no huddle at mid-field and throwing a quick slant. What, the corners/safeties are going to play the deep route on 4th and 3? Great choice. But, as Madden pointed out about 2 minutes before that final play, "Look at his eyes, he's like a kid again, having fun out there."

That's the argument that most (non-Red Sox) player...

2005-10-04T17:21:00.000-04:00

That's the argument that most (non-Red Sox) players, managers and former players consistently make, so it certainly has some relevance.

It has nothing to do with the amount of abuse though, just the fact that playing in the field requires extra work and preparation so that if a DH is going to win the award his numbers should be significantly better.

Craig,That's an absurd argument. Under that crite...

2005-10-04T17:15:00.000-04:00

Craig,
That's an absurd argument. Under that criteria a catcher would always win MVP since they take the most abuse.

I think you're missing the point with Ortiz being ...

2005-10-04T17:09:00.000-04:00

I think you're missing the point with Ortiz being a DH. The main consideration is that he does not have to go out and give the effort that playing in the field requires.

On a 95-degree day in July he's sitting in the air conditioned dugout rather than baking in the sun. He doesn't have to dive for loose balls, risk injury, take the wear and tear on his body from the extra work that playing third base requires. He doesn't have to spend time taking infield practice before games. You don't have to do with frustration if you make an error. He doesn't have to look at scouting reports of other team's hitters to know how to position himself in the field. He just shows up and steps up to the plate 4 times a game.

You can't make a case for a DH winning the award without addressing the main argument against it.

Also, I agree with the thoughts on a reliever not getting the Cy, but take a look at Mariano's stats in road games.

I'll learn what? That Jeter and A. Rod are overra...

2005-10-04T17:00:00.000-04:00

I'll learn what? That Jeter and A. Rod are overrated with the glove? JRod, clearly you don't read my stuff deeply, because I already know those two are merely average in the field.
Fielding statistics have NO factor in the Gold Glove race, not because they're not useful, but because 95% of the voters for these awards are idiots who think batting average is the most important batting statistic and wins are the only stat to be used in determining a pitcher's worth. Those guys don't watch every game, they follow the team they're assigned to cover. Gold Gloves are won on reputation. Brooks Robinson and Mike Schmidt were two of the greatest third basemen ever, but they didn't deserve half of their Gold Glove awards. When they were on the downside of their career they kept winning because they had the best reputations. Zone factor is a very important statistic that determines how many balls a player gets to. Both Jeter and A. Rod's are pathetic. The reason Jeter makes the highlight reel so often is because he makes the routine plays look impossible. Watch Eric Chavez sometime. On balls that A. Rod would have to dive for, Chavez simply ranges right, scoops and makes the throw like its not a problem.
I don't care that Jeter won a Gold Glove last year and I don't care if A. Rod wins one this year. They aren't great fielders and no amount of hardware will ever change that.

I'm not being insecure. It can just be tough some...

2005-10-04T16:51:00.000-04:00

I'm not being insecure. It can just be tough sometimes when your team gets bashed and ridiculed all the time, especially with pointless comments. If fielding statistics don't determine a Gold Glove winner, which according to your article last year regarding Jeter winning the Gold Glove, they dont; then how can you argue someone's poor defensive play on those same numbers. I feel like those numbers rarely decide the Gold Glove winners, therefore are completely pointless in your attack. I don't argue with your Yankee brigades if you give good arguments. I know how much it pains you inside to admit that a Yankee is a good player, but let's just get over it. I have no problems marveling over what David Ortiz has done, yet I still don't like him. One day you will learn.

I never said fielding statistics should determine ...

2005-10-04T16:33:00.000-04:00

I never said fielding statistics should determine a Gold Glove winner, I just said that according to every available fielding statistic A. Rod was below average. Jeez, and I thought Red Sox fans were insecure.

Vogel, let's compare Andruw Jones and Derek Lee wi...

2005-10-04T16:19:00.000-04:00

Vogel, let's compare Andruw Jones and Derek Lee with runners in scoring position since Jones had so many clutch hits:

'Derrek Lee hit .331 with runners in scoring position, with 64 RBIs in 124 at-bats. Atlanta's Andruw Jones hit only .207 with runners in scoring position. But Jones had 60 more at-bats in those situations than Lee, and had 72 RBIs with runners in scoring position.'

60 more at-bats and 8 more rbi's doesn't sound that clutch to me or that impressive to lead the league in rbi. Then take into consideration that Derek Lee is one of the best defensive first baseman in baseball and you can easily make an argument that he is the mvp and put up huge numbers even though his teammates couldn't do anything in front of him, unless you consider your boy corey patterson's 118 k's and 23 bb's as doing the job at the top of the lineup. Or how about neifi perez at the top of the lineup:

'Perez played in 154 games, had 572 at-bats and walked only 18 times. Perez had 382 combined at-bats in the No. 1 or No. 2 slots. He averaged one walk for every 33.8 plate appearances, lowest in the league.'

What the hell do you want Derek Lee to do, bat 1-2-3 in the lineup....Derek Lee or Albert Pujols is the MVP, not Andruw Jones

I guess by your account, Brandon Inge should win t...

2005-10-04T16:16:00.000-04:00

I guess by your account, Brandon Inge should win the Gold Glove at 3rd because his zone rating and range factor are so high. Who cares about the 23 errors. As long as the range factor is high, he must be a great 3rd basemen. Inge also has a higher range factor than Mike Schmidts career range factor; he is probably the best ever. These stats are so misleading. (not sure if my research is correct on this, but I'm sure you will correct any mistakes i made)

More Peter Gammons and Harold Reynolds, but I'm su...

2005-10-04T15:53:00.000-04:00

More Peter Gammons and Harold Reynolds, but I'm sure Michael Kay and Paul O'Neill would agree. But cmon, lets be reasonable...You would rather have Vinny Castilla as your third baseman over ARod?? (just based on fielding). I don't even think Vinny can reach the ground, let alone make the diving plays Alex can make. That example also proves how meaningless those stats are.

Wait, are you telling me that both Michael Kay AND...

2005-10-04T15:46:00.000-04:00

Wait, are you telling me that both Michael Kay AND Paul O'Neill think A. Rod should win the Gold Glove??!!! STOP THE PRESSES!!! I need to change my MVP vote!
Vogs, I hear you about Andruw, but his low OBP and the strength of the Braves pitching made me go with Lee. But like I said, I can't argue with anyone who would vote for Pujols or Jones.
By the way, the new 'word verification' at the bottom of the comments page is to prevent spammers from leaving advertisements as comments like they've been doing for the past few weeks.
It's a little inconvenient, but keeps the comments section clean and my e-mail inbox less cluttered.

How can you argue about giving the MVP to someone ...

2005-10-04T15:39:00.000-04:00

How can you argue about giving the MVP to someone who was most valuable to their team (i.e. David Ortiz) and not give the same arguement for Andruw Jones? For most of the season, Andruw put the Braves on his back and had as many clutch hits/homeruns as your Big Papi. His credentials are solid too. He won 2/3 of the triple crown categories (which are more distinguished than doubles), is a perennial gold glove winner, and probably made his team a 90 game winner instead of 70 game winner. Andruw Jones actually put his team in the playoffs, which can't be said about Derek Lee.

-Vogel

You frequently mention how bad of a fielder ARod i...

2005-10-04T15:38:00.000-04:00

You frequently mention how bad of a fielder ARod is based on range factor and what not. I do not buy into any of that. The mere fact that Manny isn't at the bottom (Red Sox fans will admit that he is a terrible fielder) should show how unreliable those statistics are. If you actually watched the games, you will agree with the analysts and commentators when they give ARod serious thought for the Gold Glove. They should have that same close and late stat for when in the field, because I have personally witnessed him making game saving dives and stops and double plays that you also won't see on the internet stat page. He covered a stretch this season of going errorless for a couple month period. That's a tough feat for a 3rd baseman. As in all sports, stats can be very deceiving. You only seem to recognize that when it hurts a player you root for or when it promotes a player you dislike.